Dr. Jon Krohn879: Serverless, Parallel and AI-Assisted: The Future of Data Science is Here — with Greg Michaelson
synopsis
Greg Michaelson of Zerve, on his second appearance, ends up arguing that large language models have made building software so cheap that many SaaS vendors face an existential crisis, and that the job for his own company is to build the best AI-assisted coding environment for code-first data teams. He declines to look more than a year ahead, saying no five-year prediction would be reliable at the current pace.
What Zerve added. Since episode 753, Zerve has added GitHub and Bitbucket integration and, the week of recording, a "fleet" feature that parallelises execution on serverless compute. Because each block in Zerve's DAG already spins up its own serverless compute when run, Michaelson says, a thousand LLM calls that would each take 20 to 40 seconds in series can run at once with no pool management and no extra cost, since total compute is the same. Several people can work in Python, R and SQL in one canvas at once, which the host likens to Google Docs replacing emailed Word files.
Code-first, not low-code. Asked about Zerve's claim that it cuts cycle times by up to nine times, Michaelson answers by placing the product. After about seven years at DataRobot, he says low-code/no-code tools of the 2010s hit a ceiling whenever problems get complicated, which is why DataRobot and Databricks added notebooks; value comes from experts who code. LLMs have changed coding into describing what you want and refining the result, but he and the host agree expertise is still needed as projects grow complex.
LLMs and intellectual property. Michaelson offers three routes for prompts: OpenAI, whose models he finds best though he distrusts benchmarks; AWS Bedrock, for those who already trust AWS with their data; and self-hosted Hugging Face models, which can be fine-tuned. Zerve itself is self-hosted. GenAI blocks take dynamic prompts fed by upstream variables, while the AI assistant is an agent that plans a canvas and creates and connects blocks.
Full stack, any data stack. Zerve connects to whatever storage an organisation already has, from Snowflake to bank mainframes, since data scientists rarely choose it. On RAG, he describes a media-recommendation client whose naive LLM queries returned four versions of Dune among five suggestions for "movies like Dune"; enriching the context with podcasts and New York Times reviews produced richer, cross-media recommendations. He cites a call-centre audio-transcription job as a case where parallelism is what makes the work feasible.
Ending the handoff. Michaelson calls handing prototypes to developers a risky dependency. Per-canvas Docker containers end dependency mismatches, serialised block variables let an API route point straight at a trained model, and deployments run serverless; where data scientists may not deploy, they hand off deployable software instead.
SaaS under threat. The host brings in Klarna, Satya Nadella's forecast that business logic will move into agents, and Zoho's CEO's contrary view. Michaelson says no one will rebuild Salesforce, but many simpler vendors could be replaced in-house, and bolt-on prompt boxes are commodities. The host adds that per-token pricing is eroding flat subscriptions; both say they pay for OpenAI's $200-a-month plan.
Trusting the models. Michaelson recalls ChatGPT inventing a nonexistent image-editing API, and the host describes o1 pro in deep research assuming a link's contents because it lacked internet access. Michaelson's experiment with four LLMs ranking each other's answers to SAT essay questions was unstable but showed no self-preference, and he proposes LLM committees, with cheap models escalating doubtful answers to expensive ones.
- Cheap in-house building with LLMs threatens many SaaS vendors. Michaelson argues the build-versus-buy calculation has shifted so far that firms selling custom use-case software face an existential crisis, though nobody will rebuild something like Salesforce, and he separates "dime a dozen" generative AI bolt-ons from deeply integrated agents. The host sets this against Klarna's and Satya Nadella's similar views and Zoho's CEO's counter-argument that AI will spawn new vertical SaaS, and notes a friend who cut a $20-a-month ChatGPT Plus cost to $2 by calling the API through his own interface.
- Zerve's serverless blocks make parallelism and collaboration nearly free. Michaelson explains that code lives in the nodes of a DAG canvas, with data frames passing along its edges, and each block spins up its own serverless compute. That lets several people run Python, R and SQL in one canvas at once, and lets the new "fleet" feature fan out, say, a thousand slow LLM calls with no extra code and, he says, no extra cost.
- Zerve lets companies choose where prompts go to protect their IP. Michaelson says OpenAI's models are the best in his experience, though he distrusts LLM benchmarks, and sending prompts there is unavoidable with them. Zerve also offers AWS Bedrock and self-hosted Hugging Face models, which can be fine-tuned, and Zerve itself is self-hosted. Beyond prompt-driven GenAI blocks, its AI assistant is an agent that plans, creates and connects blocks from a natural-language request.
- Data scientists should ship software, not prototypes for engineers to recode. Michaelson calls the handoff to developers a risky dependency, since they may misunderstand the model. Zerve gives each canvas a Docker container and serialises every block's variables, so an API route can point straight at a trained random forest and deploy on Lambda-style serverless compute, with a handoff path where data scientists aren't allowed to deploy.
- LLM committees are his answer to bias and error in AI judgment. In Michaelson's test, four LLMs answered and then ranked responses to about a hundred SAT essay questions; rankings were "wildly unstable" across reruns, but no model favoured its own answers. He suggests cheap models screening answers and escalating doubtful ones to expensive models, and warns that a model that gets a problem badly wrong first time is rarely correctable.